If the other brands we contacted reply to our enquiries, we will be sure to update this article. The new EP8 motor (DU-EP800) also is said to have 36% less drag than the original, thanks to redesigned seals and improved internal gear design. I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! Now I have $10k garage ornament that I can't ride for 3 months. That is, spme pretension or a clutch like system. Its a little different though, with Orbea detuning the motors power and assistance to improve efficiency so it can use a smaller and lighter 360Wh battery. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 2b - If threadlock patch is present, move on to step 3. Put on i9 Hydra hubs, annoying motor rattle sounds disappears. This is part of our COMMENCAL Care program, we consider a warranty case should have no cost at all for any of our customers.. With the Spectral:ON for example, which has very short chainstays and a relatively slack seat tube angle that puts your weight further over the rear axle on steep climbs, it helped to dial down the Assistance Character (to 6/10), the Maximum Torque (to 78Nm) and the Assistance Start (to 4/5) to soften the bikes power and acceleration. Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. @tomdesoals: Yeah, I get that now that bikes have become more silent anything new that makes noise can become annoying. So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. What this article says to me is no wonder people make fun of mountain bikers. I love the progression of Ebikes! You've been subscribed to our newsletter. A bike that weighs almost half as much as the rider. February 22, 2021. He was pretty happy about ANT compatibility. Again, shift it down one notch at a time to get a feel for the change. 3. Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. Yeah but who needs all that power? Indeed Specialized actually built the new Levo around a mullet setup with a 27.5in rear wheel, in order to shorten the chainstays. Its also given us plenty of opportunity to identify all the little quirks, while getting a better impression of long-term durability and performance. Didn't think I'd ever see that. If youve experienced a Shimano EP8 bottom bracket spindle failure, let us know in the comments below. Along with the EP8s magnesium casting, heat sinks and polished logos, it affords a classy look not an easy feat for an e-MTB. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. Ebikes are cool but not quite refined enough to jump in yet. Hey Ralf Hauser!! Too hot to handle even. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. this dude knows how to write a review, well done. Shimano doesnt state what those design differences are, however. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. Well, maybe, but he also chucked 20kg dead weight in his bag to try to make things right for you. As much as I want an emtb right now, I am waiting until the technology is perfected. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. To replicate field failures, we had to look outside of the required ISO and EN testing requirements as those tests were passed successfully. Though the new EP8 motor is claimed to be more efficient than its predecessor, there is of course more power too. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? But on the premise of further, faster, more fun, that range at full noise is not gonna outdo the range & fun I get outta my bowl of cereal and some old fashion pedal power. The newly shaped buttons on the EM800-L switch unit provide a nice tactile perch for your thumb to quickly flick between those settings. Some claim it's a dangerous motor that suffers spindle failures. is a broken record . It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. "- Only five power bars for charge level.". Funny that motor has a gear box, but only one gear? Power delivery is immediately intuitive thanks to the new MasterMind firmware that Specialized developed specifically for the 2.2 motor, which reduces power spikes from rapid changes in crank speed and pedal pressure. When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. The lighter weight is a big plus as well. Absolutely. Update. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. Hes one of BikeRadars lead testers and knows how to push bikes and products to the limit, searching out the equipment that represents the best value for money. In the lower settings, youll have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor. The downside for Bosch is that its display options leave a lot to be desired. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. It's kinda frustrating. Weve been living with the Shimano EP8 motor for six months now across three different bikes; the Merida eOne-Sixty, the Polygon Mt Bromo, and the Canyon Spectral:ON. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. Stab happy!". I haven't had the privelage to ride any bosch equiped bikes or other shimano bikes but this thing is so quiet I think it would be hard to find another ebike motor that is more silent. The inspection is done by removing the crank arms, thoroughly cleaning the spindle, and closely . I have not heard of a recall, so I did some digging. Great for climbing, on the descents the weight changes how I ride, not better or worse. And with brands such as Merida and Canyon making use of internal wiring through the handlebars, the whole arrangement is quite tidy. In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. At my age 69, if it isn't fun, exciting, and challenging, count me out! Sometimes that means a DIY fix and other times it can mean a recall, software update or part replacement by a dealer. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. The Shimano EP8 RS of the Orbea Rise does not present physical differences concerning the EP8 that we can see mounted on other e-mtb's. Its dimensions and weight are the same. I'm 56 with a long term knee injury. I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. Improving performance on undulating terrain, Shimano has also increased the EP8s available torque at lower cadences. This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. 2. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. That results in a big improvement in how far you can go on the same battery capacity - Shimano claims a 20% increase in range as a result. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Anyone knows what's are those white (ish) shoes the reviewer is using on some of the pics? Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. Along with the svelte carbon frame, that helps to reduce the total bike weight to as low as 16.2kg, creating a potentially worthy adversary to the Specialized Levo SL. Along with the fault-free performance weve experienced so far, wed have no hesitation in recommending a bike built around Shimano EP8 this is a high quality and well-rounded e-MTB system. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. The current spares situation is shocking, l've been waiting six weeks for a battery lock for my E8000 equipped Kona and have been told "June" is the earliest l can expect to see it. However, when coasting on rough terrain the unloaded system can exhibit a 'NORMAL' clicking sound that may be detectable to the rider. "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". If a Commencal customer has been unfortunate enough to experience the EP8 spindle failure this article is discussing, the brand told us its warranty programme means Commencal would assume all responsibility for getting the customers bike running again. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. This data covers comprehensive third party metallurgical analysis in addition to results from a rigorous test battery of corrosion testing combined with ISO Fatigue. One is a Haibike Fat-Tire with a Yamaha Drive, the second is an absolutely brilliant 40lb (including battery) DIODE from LaMere Cycles in the USA. 214 We haven't really got an opinion about durability. Regardless ebike or "normal" MTB. Its considerably bulkier than Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame profile while also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance. The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. The Brose Mag S motor has been used in the Specialized Levo and Kenevo since 2018, though it was recently updated for the release of the new Levo. Good thing with Shimano is warranty,at least here in Madrid is almost instantaneous. That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. That rattle would drive me bonkers. Looks like Rocky(Dyname), Giant(Yamaha) and Specialized(Brose) are in for 2021 and Shimano and Bosch are out. The Shimano EP8 user interface is similarly elegant in its design. How stuff like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? A little more overrun from the EP8 motor, and even the option to tune that attribute via the E-Tube app, would be stupendous! Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. I also got it second hand as I just can't afford new. Thanks to lightweight magnesium components, Shimano has shaved off a cool 200g of weight making it one of the lightest electric bike motors on the market today. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. Oh, how the humorous aspect of your comment has been missed. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. Chuckle. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. Why so delicate, bro? The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. You are not alone. While the increased power certainly grabs most of the headlines, we reckon its the compact form of the Shimano EP8 drive unit that offers the greatest advantage over its competitors. I would have respected Shimano more if they owned it and were more forthright about working to resolve it. I'd do way more on a big day. We hope Shimano will join us at that table soon.. We see some comments about how bad the Shimano EP8 motor is. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. Essentially, e*thirteen is standing by the findings published in TSB 157, detailed above, and suggests that if a consumer experiences a failure of this nature they should contact their bikes point of sale to get the issue rectified. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. This is particularly noticeable on traction-poor climbs, even when starting from a standstill. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. Gear or similar. The updated Trail mode is brilliant, and the option to fine-tune each assist mode is a welcome feature for achieving the desired feel while maximising range. Truly unfortunate you lost it. oooof! Can they make it swappable with a gear box? That's a 21% increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor. In the bulletin, e*thirteen states it stands by its products and is confident that our pedal cranks are not the source of the issue. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. 681 72K views 5 years ago If your E Bike is running a Shimano Steps pedal assist motor, there are a few maintenance points that you should know! While some frames will resonate more than others, the noise is otherwise normal, and it doesnt take long before your brain subconsciously ignores it. Subscribe from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! What's your experience on this? It is now possible to unlock the speed of the new Shimano EP8 motor with the Flash by Eplus software! If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? Shimanos overarching advice is for consumers to only use Shimano-approved pedal cranks on its EP8 motors. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. There is zero stickiness at the pedals that we could detect. The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. It isnt a huge difference, but sometimes its just enough for your rear wheel to make it up and over a stubborn tree root or rock ledge. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. Shimano said August was the best. In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! The existing Shimano E8000 motor is arguably the most popular motor in mountain e-bikes. I tried to find out the cause of this. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. Also did some trail work. This reduced the tendency for the front wheel to lift on really steep tech climbs. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. I feel like I've been missing out on so much! In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. Are we ignoring the fact that motor has been recalled/reworked by Shimano, and pushing all new bike deliveries by two months (at least)? Still, given the lengths that bike and drivetrain manufacturers have gone to stealthify mountain bikes over the past few years, we found the noisy EP8 motor to be infuriating during the first few rides just as we did with the Bosch Gen 4. 2c - If preload cap has no threadlock patch pre applied: And more power requires more juice. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. When we see failures like this, it is incumbent on us to find the root cause and, if it is within our control, provide a resolution, reads e*thirteens statement. What ever happened to grit?!?! Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. 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